Curse

Carinae · Mar 06, 2008, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zonzai

No SS then?

Run Livia as a pure SS if you want. Never ask a hero to do two jobs at once, and never run SS and MM on the same character no matter who it is, real people included.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zonzai

And I usually use hench monks... excluding HM. Which I try to avoid anyway.

Lina has condition removal in EotN (which you have, since you have Livia)

EDIT: The Olias build I gave you will run rings around your first build. Have Livia run SS, Enfeebling Blood, Reckless Haste, Mark of Pain, Blood Ritual, GoLE, Res Sig and one more skill of your choice. With this HUGE increase in offensive power, you can now afford to run a hero monk who will make the hench monks look like children.

Zonzai · Mar 06, 2008, 07:26 AM // 07:26

I think I will just test it without SS then.

I need 2 MM's. It works too well with my 2 nukers to give it up.

Racthoh · Mar 06, 2008, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Lina has condition removal in EotN (which you have, since you have Livia)

In reality she has a 38 point heal that sometimes hits the conditional for 101. I would never rely on a hero to use a single spot removal correctly.

Washi · Mar 06, 2008, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Use this: Olias MM

16 DM
13 SR
4 Blood

[skill]Death Nova[/skill][skill]Jagged Bones[/skill][skill]Animate Shambling Horror[/skill][skill]Animate Vampiric Horror[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill][skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Dark Bond[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Why would you put 3 minion skills on a bomber?

use [skill]Animate Bone Minions[/skill] and you will free 2 skill spots for utility and you will make your bombing more efficient.

Unless it's not supposed to be a bomber, but it kinda looks like it with jagged bones and death nova.

Carinae · Mar 06, 2008, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Why would I put Fiends on a bomber? Unless it's an actual MM build that gets all the goodness of a bomber when the minions die. Best of both worlds.

Carinae · Mar 06, 2008, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

In reality she has a 38 point heal that sometimes hits the conditional for 101. I would never rely on a hero to use a single spot removal correctly.

Regarding Lina, yea well, it's Lina. Regarding a hero, they use Mend Condition well enough in my experience. (Unless you know something I don't)

Zonzai · Mar 06, 2008, 09:29 AM // 09:29

I guess I must just be missing something. I still don't see much practical difference going from 14 to 16. I like that I can get one more bomber and all but I actually end up doing a lot less bombing. The minions certainly survive longer and all...

But my rate of killing is actually slower than it was before. It's not as much slower as I thought that it was going to be though, which is nice.

Your build is certainly more capable in HM, being a more MM/less bomber oriented build than what I have been using (except against high damage foes, in which case it's not really any worse either). The only thing is, I try not to do much HM with heroes.

At any rate, I thank you all for the comments and especially Carinae for the advice. It's something for me to consider.

---

As far as the condition removal goes. My problem is that cripple and daze really hurt my ability to nuke. And my build/play style is pretty much based around the concept of killing as quickly as possible as rapidly as possible. So, I'm not that keen on dropping my back up nuker right after losing SS.

To maximize my nukage, I either need a condition removal that my heroes can spam, that I can control directly or that a PC monk can provide. Aside from just dropping a damage-dealer and adding a monk, I could throw a condition removal on Vekk and simply disable it until I need it. I could also throw a condition removal on my PC but that means that I have to be a ranger or monk secondary. I could also go back to the SS/condition remover that I used to use before EOTN. Or, I could even pray I don't get hit with any conditions and roll without any decent condition removal.

We shall see.

cgruber · Mar 06, 2008, 05:55 PM // 17:55

If you want to kill fast take a MM with animate bone minnions, jagged bones, death nova, blood of the master. Also take a curse necro with SS, reckless haste, barbs, mark of pain.

Max both death and curses on each necro to 16. The dmg is multiplied by the minions.

The flesh golum sucks

Zonzai · Mar 06, 2008, 08:25 PM // 20:25

That's kind of what I was doing before, cg. (Except I also have bombers on my second necro.)

We were only debating about the Flesh Golem because my guildie used it.

angmar_nite · Mar 07, 2008, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Tell him to stop. And Carinae, the sab olias does protect and mm simultaneously fine.

kazjun · Mar 07, 2008, 03:16 AM // 03:16

If you're going bomber then your death may not be that important. You can run fine on a rit at 12 death using nova, jagged, minions and explosive growth+boon. But you really do want a lot of corpses around for more minions since they die as soon as anything looks at them and eles will wipe them in seconds.

If you want them to actually do damage (asides from nova), or meatshield though, you'll want to have as high death as you can to make them more durable and actually kill things.

kazjun · Mar 07, 2008, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Oh, and I'm pretty sure you miscounted if you got 10 minions with 14 death.

Zonzai · Mar 07, 2008, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by angmar_nite

Tell him to stop.

He didn't listen to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazjun

If you're going bomber then your death may not be that important.

I think you're right.

Zonzai · Mar 07, 2008, 03:55 AM // 03:55

2 posts because I am cool

Abonai Laguna · Mar 08, 2008, 02:29 PM // 14:29

argh do i hate to play jagged bones myself, i do run it on a hero but i hate doing it myself. But Jagged Bones>Flesh Golem imo

Tyla · Mar 08, 2008, 02:35 PM // 14:35

[skill]jagged bones[/skill]
Flesh Golem is kinda....meh....

thehoweller · Mar 08, 2008, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zonzai

2 posts because I am cool

lol at this

And about Jagged Bones, I'm strongly thinking of removing it from my MM's build. It's a nice skill to have, but overall, I think having it in the elite slot is detrimental. I believe there's some nice damage potential there, whether it's from Icy Veins, or from something like Discord.

I've found that Sabway is incredibly good at making stalemates. It doesn't have enough damage output to overtake excess healing in HM and this has often resulted in me giving up on vanquishing an area because of certain mobs.

DarkSpirit · Mar 08, 2008, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehoweller

I've found that Sabway is incredibly good at making stalemates. It doesn't have enough damage output to overtake excess healing in HM and this has often resulted in me giving up on vanquishing an area because of certain mobs.

Which is why Sab suggested taking nuker and warrior henchies with you when running sabway. And his 4-man version has more offensive skills in it. Half a team dedicated to mostly offense should be good enough.

And no, if I party with someone, I wouldn't ask to bring 2 sets of sabway heroes.